Where'd you read that?

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Billboard. I suppose I should have mentioned that.

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003741748

You seeing Eels on Friday?

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Found it, and Billy posted an official statement on the Pumpkins' site too: http://www.smashingpumpkins.com/news_3473

Yep, I am seeing eels...do you want me to do your dirty work for you?

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I'm amused that Jimmy says "Just goes to show that they will do about anything for money. Seems they have long forgotten how to actually 'work' for a dollar" because, like, if they'd do anything for a dollar and didn't want to work, what easier way than to release reissues? Even with minimal marketing you'd think they'd make their money back. It's not as if they'd have to search hard for Pumpkins outtakes. Give me an hour and my cd collection and I could put together a set of Pumpkins reissues. Eh, what do I know? Maybe this lawsuit will get them to release more stuff as a compromise (or give the Pumpkins catalog back to Billy).

And, yes, I think I'll have you buy me an Eels cd, subject to a price limit (which I haven't decided on yet). Maybe a few, depending on how it's doing on ebay ;-)

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Yeah, rereleases would be easy but the label's shot them down countless times. It's ridiculous. Whatever the catalog sales are for SD would probably at least double short-term with a rerelease.

Question for you though...what if the unreleased music they talk about here is released in a digital format only? Would you be willing to download it? Especially if it's done through the pumpkins directly?

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I'd considered that possibility, and I really don't know - it puts two of my rules in direct conflict (which I've mostly avoided so far). I don't buy digital downloads, but I also say that I pay for things when I can. I guess it depends on what it is, too - like, if they go and released Mashed Potatoes digitally, I'd be really hard pressed to pay $10 for something that I already have (and haven't played in years and years). Even if it's something new (and worthwhile), I don't know if I could do it - I'd probably try to download it illegally, but at least I'd feel bad about it.

It doesn't help that we've essentially been trained for years that there's no problem with freely downloading Pumpkins outtakes and demos. This actually makes me wonder something that I'd never really thought of before: is it technically illegal, or immoral, to download songs like "Real Love" or "Slow Dawn", since a person could buy them if they wanted to? Hmm.

I realize the world is leading to the point where one day, a major album by a band I love will only be available by downloading, and it terrifies me. It's already starting - the new Elvis Costello will apparently only be on vinyl and download (although there's a rumor that a cd will be out a few weeks later).

On a totally unrelated note, I assume I'll see you at Schuba's next month?

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re: "slow dawn" and "real love", no it's not immoral, because they were released online for free. The other songs on Judas O, yes, different story.

Well, let's say the band starts putting up soundboard shows from all eras for $10 a show, digitial download only. But there's a few special shows/releases they release in limited-edition CD format (last Metro show, last Arising show, unheard SD demos).

Would you just buy the CDs? What if one of the digital download shows was the first show you ever saw, or something you really wanted? Then what?

And as for next month, probably, but I don't know.

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Well, I'd buy the CDs for sure. Buying downloads of live shows, though, sort of goes to the "they were released online for free" thing. True, they weren't ever "officially" released, but the band was ok with them being out there, and now even post some live shows on their own website. So, I'd kind of feel like a sucker to go spend $10 when I could have gotten the same show (or something very much like it) for free.

You might know better than I do - does Pearl Jam still have a policy of allowing taping and trading and all that? If they do, why would anybody go and buy the digital downloads they sold? Possibly better quality I guess, but that's hardly assured. Maybe I'm just out of touch with kids today, and they just like paying for the downloads because it's easier than finding somebody to trade with (does anybody trade anymore?) or finding some download site?

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Pearl Jam, yeah, the whole point of their selling shows was that they were releasing soundboard copies, so it is assured versus a handheld (iirc, their policy was taping was legal, but no mic stands or "professional" equiptment).

For the Pumpkins, yes, there's certainly been a lot of shows and stuff out there, but most everything pre-Adore wasn't the best quality. And with the knowledge the band has basically taped everything they've done since 1995, there are things they have that are not available elsewhere, or anywhere close to that quality.

So again, say the first Pumpkins show you saw. You have a crappy cassette copy. If the band put up a soundboard copy for $10, would you not want to download it and burn a CD of it? Or are you happy with your crappy recording?
There's certain things the band can release that would have a bigger audience, but if they want to release 20 SD-era shows over the next year, very few people would buy all of them, so there's no point in pressing CDs of all of it. But this way people can still support the band and get what they want.

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Well, my first show was 7/5/98, and I'm not really a big Adore tour fan, so probably not. I get your point, though.

Ideally for me, this is what would happen: They'd release any demo or studio stuff on CD (and that's the stuff that matters most to me). For live shows, maybe do a series of CDs of "important" shows or the best shows or a compilation of each tour or something, and then release 100 or whatever other shows just digitally. That's sort of something for everybody - I'd just buy the CDs and probably not bother with any of the digital-only live stuff at all (unless it was, as you say, a personally significant show, and then maybe I'd buy it, I'm not sure).

These are some awfully specific questions - just for your own curiosity, or do you have some say in something? I remember when I first met you, I always considered you the closest insider to the Pumpkins I knew (even though you always denied it), maybe it's still true?

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Well, when you first met me, my connections were fringe compared to my friends, though yeah, I certainly had an inside connection for a little while during the Machina era. But considering I never even bought Zeitgeist and don't really listen much, that's ancient times.

Anyhow, my own curiosity at this point, given that I know your preference for CDs, and that a lot of the recent articles it seems the band is looking to no longer travel that route as much. For example, the whole American Gothic release on Itunes, and there was a recent article where it said they'd no longer release "albums" in the traditional sense of a physical release, but put up groups of songs whey they were ready, etc.
The release of archived material will be handled in a similar way, be it through itunes or elsewhere, I'd imagine, because it doesn't sound like the band is going to be working with any labels anytime soon.

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Well, American Gothic did get a CD release in the UK (and, if I cared at all about the band anymore, that's how I would have bought it).

They wouldn't be the first band to claim they were giving up albums and just doing smaller releases (Ash did the same thing a few months ago, and even Radiohead hinted they'd do that after their contract ran out (and then ended up not)), but in most cases the band either chickens out or says they'll release cds at the end, too. Like, let's say the Pumpkins start releasing 3-song digital only EPs every 2 months - it doesn't take a genius to think that they'd probably release a collection of them on cd after a year. It's free money, why wouldn't they?

As for releasing archive stuff on cd, I'm quite sure they could do it themselves, if they had the desire. I've bought self-released stuff online from bands like The Dandy Warhols and Eels, and if they could get it together so could Billy. Put it all online for $10 each and do limited edition cds for $20, they'd make plenty of money on it. But, again, it all depends on them caring, and I have no idea if they do.

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Well, not quite free money if they're paying to get all the CDs pressed/shipped, etc. if they are working without a label.
But yeah, I know what you mean.

I'm not even sure how much studio/demo material exists that we haven't all heard, but there's obviously some things (gotta be a few more SD-type stuff, possibly a little more MCIS, and there's definitely scrapped early-Adore stuff).

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Yeah, there's got to be more stuff, but I'd even be happy to pay for official cds of stuff that we've all heard (especially if it was better sound quality or had some good liner notes). I'm sure there are plenty of people who like the Pumpkins but have no idea that things like the MCIS Demos or Mashed Potatoes exist. And I can't believe that it's 8 years later and there's STILL no CD release of Machina II. That's just criminal!

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